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May 25, 2014
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I have been waiting to address this topic again for some time now. I don't think a lot of you realize what's really going on with Manga here in the states and for those who do manga that are not Japanese. So for everyone who aspires to try manga for any reason and want it to be a success or stick out from the garbage heap. You may want to listen to what i have to say. Take notes and open your mind, if you have a closed mind then i advise you to be open. This may not be the journal post for you if you are closed minded. Ok now that's out of the way let's begin.

For those of you who don't know your history Ameri Manga was a thing. It started off in the what early 2000's. Well it failed miserably needless to say for whatever reason. Ok so Then Bleach comes out and there's this huge jump in fans and amateur artist wanting to make their own personalized manga.  So credit Bleach for this huge leap and jump for others to try and produce their own manga. 

Now we fast forward to today. It's no longer Ameri Manga cause that died a long time ago as explained above. But now it's considered OEL manga. Which means Original English language Manga. And even it is not doing so hot. There have been countless topics and well it's a very popular subject matter. Because let's face the facts there are people who do Manga as a hobby. Then you have artist and writer & artist teams who want to do it in a professional sense. 

So this is mainly a post for those who want to truly publish their manga in a sense that it gains real merits and not just a little online buzz. 

So here are the problems facing and holding back OEL manga creators.

1. Fans of manga love to get their products straight from Japan. Why? simple it's quality over substance. 

2.It's not only about the art work, it's about the over all work and how to keep readers interested and coming back for more.

I think a lot of people fail to realize that art a lone in manga or Anime just won't cut it. Yes we all love the art style even i do. But you must have more to go on. Other wise people should just create manga art books instead of calling it manga. And let's face the facts most artist would even lose in that category if they went up against a real Manga artist from Japan. Let's be honest about things as I'm coming to you all with hard core facts.

3. A lot of you are going to hate me for this but i don't care. Most artist here in the states or other are rejected by Manga publishing companies or comic book companies. @__@ Yes sorry to hurt your feelings but hey it's true.  I know of some i could name that i worked with that got rejected and well they are with a no name web comic website now. But that's just reality if you don't want to follow a certain pattern then well you obviously will falter. 

4.  Fans again only want to care about the artist and what he or she brings art wise to the table. Yes of course art is important in a comic medium. But for you to only support their work because of that well it leaves a lot to be said. Because Manga is not American comics. That's the problem Comic books yeah the artist are famous and they get credited for their art and so forth. But still remember there's more to Batman,Spiderman,Superman,X-men etc...  They all have a huge story plot for you to go off of. So that's why they can stretch things out for years and do movie after movie.

5. Weak content that gains huge support and then goes flat after a little while. A lot of you don't understand that working on a manga is hard. I'm not just talking about drawing pages i'm speaking from a keeping the reader interested perspective. If you don't understand that then well i'm sorry.

6. If the only person or people you can impress are your friends. Than most likely your manga will fail. Sorry to say this but if you are in some group who hails your Manga as a gift from GOD. But then when you post it to a forum or Manga website and only get a few pages views. That means that your project was probably not as good as your friends made it out to be. That's just fact from viewing countless pages of manga from other websites.

7. Work Ethic and and pride. A lot of you don't understand that Japaneses artist work like it's their last meal. So with poor work rate and lack of effort you all are killing it for Non Japanese Manga. Also the countless excuses you make are sickening to hear from a publishers stand point. Who wants to hear about you having homework or your job sucked, you had a bad day at school etc.. Japanese artist deal with the same things maybe in a different form one or another but their work rate doesn't drop. Also they don't have mindless goons making stupid comments about them or trying to stop them from drawing. How dumb is that?  The mindless goons that have to say something negative are holding back others. How can an artist advance through that? Well that remains to be seen. But the goons can go sit under a rock because it would be better for them there. 9 out of 10 of the goons have a poor work rate or poor art work. So they are irrelevant and want to boost them self up because of the good another artist or writer has done. It's a cry for attention sadly. 

Next i want to talk about what's killing Manga here and for others non Japanese. 

I think i touched on this above but it's defiantly the fans. Yes i said it they want to be told a big broad lie. Some one says well my manga is going to be Epic. But then when the manga comes out it's extremely sub par. So what do the crazed fans do? Do they demand better work from this popular artist. No! And let me clarify when i say popular i mean by internet standards not a real publisher from a manga or comic book company standard just want to make that clear. So back to my point. The fans just accept anything that the artist does in hope of him or her becoming better over time. They will even go as far to say that the work was good when it clearly was half good or not even considered half decent. This is what's hurting OEL manga people. Wither you want to face the facts or not is clearly up to you.

Another thing that needs to be addressed concerning this OEL Manga situation. Well let's face the facts because i'm going to be fact checking and hitting you with facts all night. It's night time here so i can say all night. Any way  OEL manga has the wrong name.

There will need to be a total revamp for this overhaul to work . Do i know the proper steps to take. The answer is YES. Will i tell everyone? No i won't. I know and it's for the time when i decide to release it out to the masses. It's fair due to all i had to go through to learn it.

But if you all want to save or start this Manga Revolution, than it's going to take a ton of work to get out of the trash left behind from a damaged past. That has spawned into the present time. There has to be a project or something to help save face for Manga not created in Japan.  

Hey and it's going to be difficult. Every day Manga and Anime are constantly changing. Do you all realize that after Attack on Titan came out the focus is now Manga that's intense or that has intense factors.  If you are not able to do your homework on this stuff, then that's another reason why publishers will not consider your work. The state of Manga here and other places except  Europe are way off. Europe doesn't have that problem as they have more venues geared towards Manga. Not saying that they have the same work rate but i'm sure they don't have to deal with ignorant fools that know nothing about how to save this mess that they are in. I'm not in it i'm just speaking on behalf of those that want to do it. I know publishers and people behind the scenes directors etc.. But when i mention it like now i get scrutinized.

That's very silly to do that.lol I'll tell you all why. See i obviously know something or i wouldn't be talking about this topic. If anything, if i were any of you, i would cherish the thought of someone who knows something, that could possibly help me in my endeavor.  But that's the idiotic thought process we have to deal with hence slowing down progress with the state of non Japanese Manga. 

Any way i hope that you all take something from this, i'm sorry if i hurt some people's feelings but hey that is what we are dealing with, like it or not. Now if you want to leave a comment make sure it's something towards helping to reform the state of manga nothing more and nothing less. Don't waste your time trying to talk bad about me or make this about what you want. Because it's a waste of time. I don't represent OEL manga this is just something that i read about recently and wanted to touch base on. Something needs to be done because the current state of non Japanese manga is crumbling before us as we speak. It's not looking good folks bottom line like it or not. 

Take care see ya! Enjoy the read. Oh yeah and any negative comments towards me will be deleted and you will be blocked. I have a new attitude after my birthday and i'm not going to get into playing a losers game. If you want to be a loser be one by yourself. It's very immature.  
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:iconboscoe-x:
Boscoe-X Featured By Owner Sep 20, 2014
Personally, my feeling on this issue is that it is an unnecessary and self-inflicted situation. What I mean is, WHY "Manga"? Why hang that label on yourself? Being a Manga artist is like being a Mariachi studio musician. You may be terrific at it, but you're trying to survive artistically in a tiny little narrowly defined niche when there's a much larger creative universe out there you could be playing in.

Why not just tell cool stories in a style of your own devising that hey, maybe derives a lot of inspiration from Manga? SHouldn't the focus of your work be on the quality of the story, characters and execution and not on how Manga-y it is? Isn't it more rewarding to forge your own creative path than to labor within the restrictions of what is an "acceptable" expression of someone else's trope?

I think the failing of the OEL Manga is a CLUE that you need to evolve as a creator and take it to a new level instead of wallowing in your Manga comfort zone and crying about the walls closing in.

While there are definitely Manga I enjoy, taken as a milieu, let's face it, Manga style is generally tedious, repetitive and inbred. It reminds me of superhero comics from the early 90's when everyone was attempting to imitate Rob Liefeld and Jim Lee. A handful of people did some okay stuff, and the rest was a massive raging flood of derivative vomit. Don't be vomit. ;)

It's only natural that budding creators want to recreate what they love and inspired them to create, but those who end up with careers generally move past those original inspirations and develop their OWN niche. -or they become commercial style whores who sell their hands to service whatever trend is currently selling. Which, there's no shame in that if you're successful, I suppose. :)

But the point is, comics in America are selling, and there's an exciting new appreciation of diverse styles like the industry has never seen before. Why not take off the Manga blinders and forge your own unique path into the uncharted territories?

Just my opinion. :)
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Sep 20, 2014
Hello. Well i'm not to sure why this reply is for me.lol  This journal post was for manga creators who think things are easy. Also for the manga creators that don't know why their work isn't getting the buzz they think it should. I also touched on why that was and who the main people are causing the OEL failure. I am not a part of this.  I'm speaking about the topic because i have a back ground dealing with professional in Anime and Manga. So i think your post should maybe go towards others who have no idea about the creating process of comics or manga etc.. It would defiantly enlighten them.  
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:icong-falcondx:
G-FalconDX Featured By Owner Jul 16, 2014  Professional Digital Artist
This has been some very insightful.  It gives me pause for thought as to whether people are really making OEM simply because they want to imitate it, or truly want to create something extraordinary.  I am currently working on my own webcomic which is in the process of being reworked to make it better.  I'm not sure if I can call the style that I draw 'manga', nor if it'll be successful, but right now, all I want to do is to get it out there for people to read.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jul 18, 2014
Well glad you enjoyed this journal :) I'm happy to help others. I just wanted to let everyone know about this matter who cared about creating their own projects. Because it's important information and i am sure a lot of people didn't know about it.
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:icondoodle-knight:
Doodle-Knight Featured By Owner Jun 29, 2014
You're very right. Thank you for this insightful piece of advice.
Reply
:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 29, 2014
You are more than welcome. Hopefully you can join the quest to help rejuvenate non Japanese manga. :) 
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:iconmadlink:
madlink Featured By Owner Jun 24, 2014
I'm really interested in your experience in the industry and plan on looking through your journals to see what you've learned over the years (in terms of writing manga/anime).

(assuming i get into a habit of actually working on a series i've been just brainstorming for over a couple of years now);

my question: would it be wise to begin doing stuff manga-wise BUT writing it in japanese (studying it for a year and a half, so i'm far from being completely fluent) under a japanese pen name, using only japanese settings and culture, and posting the stuff on pixiv (or some other japanese website).

my thinking, is that if i solely post stuff there, with the awareness to make it less american-like and more japan-like, and people find out my work from there, people might think i'm actually japanese and find my work more enjoyable.  your thoughts?
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2014
That's a tough question. All I can say is try it out and see what happens. I don't think it would hurt anything. As far as story concepts and using a Japan base. It's been done so much by Japanese mangaka that you would have to place a very unique spin on the plot and story. They have even covered that area as well so it would still be tough. Just be original and unique. Don't worry so much with small details of Japan etc.. Allow the story to flow then the work will come out much better. This is my opinion. Hope it helps.
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:iconmadlink:
madlink Featured By Owner Jun 25, 2014
thank-you for your input.  i don't mean to stress the small stuff, it's just that when people start valuing certain details so much as to dismiss other great works it makes people think, "well...what other details would they notice."

my idea is that i have a story that i want to do (less of an obvious rip off of a popular series like bleach), and wonder that if i use anything american that people will think it's abysmal compared to a japanese mangaka did it (such as jokes, speech patterns, character motivation and designing, etc)
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 26, 2014
I personally wouldn't try to Americanize a manga. I think that what you are doing is in the right direction. It's going to be tough but stay true to your thoughts ands everything should come out ok :)
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:iconmadlink:
madlink Featured By Owner Jun 27, 2014
i got the idea of 'americanizing' from two things: amazing agent luna, and a blog about oel.  the former seemed to have an american setting with the high school and how the characters interacted when in conflict.  the latter had a quote from someone saying, "if you try to call your very american comic a manga, you're asking for trouble."  but your attitude is excellent, thank-you.
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:iconzerotrance:
Zerotrance Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014
A lot of these are more or less some of the same conclusions I've come to. This was very interesting.

I think a huge problem for OEL Manga, aside from various misconceptions based on blatant ignorance, is that people who do claim to "like manga" don't really grasp it very well. I've seen a lot of cringe-worthy books trying to pass themselves off as "how to draw manga" books, and the content within is either extremely mediocre or downright stereotypical (in terms of manga, not culture). A lot of people seem to have this idea that as long as you draw big eyes and multi-colored hair, then you've drawn manga. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

And that's just the thing about manga. It is so incredibly varied from artist to artist, and there's not "official" style or process, and yet you can still quite easily screw it up if you only claim to know what you're doing. There's a certain...flavor to it, a flavor you can only acquire with true understanding. If you study, observe, and truly put effort into practicing your craft however, you can come up with something very authentic. I'm not master at manga myself, but it's just common sense.

On the subject of work ethic...that's probably my greatest flaw. I don't draw nearly as much as I should, get discouraged easily, procrastinate like it's nobody's business, and I'll come up with any excuse as to why I shouldn't sit down in front of that canvas and just work. It's shameful. It really is. But I truly do want to get better. I truly do want to rise above my mediocrity and my short-comings...but maybe I don't want it as much as I claim I do...

You're an admirable fellow Kenshiro7. Even if the "Manga Revolution" does ultimately fail, at least I can find comfort in knowing noble souls like you fought as hard as you did.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014
Well thanks for your reply. You are absolutely right. Everything you said is true some people just don't understand manga. I'm also glad that you mentioned the aspect of being authentic. That's another important factor. It seems to me that more people care about the art than they do the story. This is what leads to weak work.  As you said they need to study Manga and view how it varies learn from that to improve. You are very intelligent i can tell. When it comes to work ethic i think we all fall short at some point. So i totally agree with you there. I'm always ready to work but i can't say the same for some others that i worked with art wise. So that can make things difficult.  Thanks so much for the compliment :) I believe that a Manga Revolution will succeed, if we all work together to make it happen. The only way it will fail is if we do nothing and let things continue towards a downward spiral. I do not want this and i think no one else does. But we have to help support each others efforts and as you mentioned improve and learn. Once these things happen then we will be able to take things further and be considered a threat and no longer a joke. I hope you will help join this Revolution :)
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:iconshi-yin:
Shi-Yin Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2014  Student General Artist
I'm not planning to do a manga, (I'm actually more into animation.  Do you think Americanime might once again boom like Avatar did?) but this was a good share of knowledge.  Thank you! 
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2014
Well thanks for your comment :) Some one else mentioned American Anime. I honestly wasn't aware of it. I didn't know Avatar was considered in that category.  By the way one of my major goals is to have one of my works produced into a Anime feature film or series.  But to answer your question yes i think that American Anime can make a come back. All it will take is something good. Maybe you and i should talk about this matter. Seeing as how you enjoy Animation and i'm looking towards that with my own works. We may can come to some type of compromise :)  Just let me know thanks!
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:iconshi-yin:
Shi-Yin Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2014  Student General Artist
Same here!  I'd like to have my works turned into an animated feature film or at least be part of a feature film.  
And on the topic of OEL, do you know Fisheye Placebo by Yuumei?  I don't think you would consider it an OEL as it doesn't follow the manga format (however it is anime-styled), but do you have any say on its success?  I think it is a really well done comic in my opinion and I believe that it's a series that beginning comic/manga creators should take a look at or aspire from before doing their own work.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2014
I've never heard of Fisheye Placebo. Do you have a link to it? Also if it is good than that still fits my point in the journal. We just don't get the recognition that Japanese manga does. This is also a problem and it makes Good work go right under the radar.
Reply
:iconshi-yin:
Shi-Yin Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2014  Student General Artist
yuumei.deviantart.com/art/Fish…

The first link is Chapter 0.  The rest of the chapters are here: yuumei.deviantart.com/gallery/…

I think this is one of the "good work" that earns its audience.

Enjoy!
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014
Yes i know Yuumei she is great :) Sorry for the late reply. She also has a series titled Kite. 
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:iconshi-yin:
Shi-Yin Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014  Student General Artist
Yup!  Big fan of her :D
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:iconpandag:
PandaG Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
I have to agree on this journal as well. Wonderful job. :) I have a question based on the post. Forgive me if it doesn't make sense. So based on many manga artists is it best to research everything and not only have an original style but a story that hasn't been told before? Along with drawing attention to the writers. Also, being aware of the difference between manga as a hobby and as a profession is important. I thank you for helping me understand based on the post. :3
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2014
Hello, thanks for your reply.  Well i was speaking based on Original English Manga. It has a bad reputation. There are no hits out there period. Actually it's considered a joke. So i pointed out certain things that are hurting our efforts as creators.  I think that what you said makes sense. Yes original story and art style is a key component.  But we also need more input from somewhere else to help push things in the right direction.
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:iconpandag:
PandaG Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
Agreed. Also, if this makes any sense, there could be a way possibly for manga artists and writers to come together and possibly have critiques. Pros cons suggestions and etc. :D
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 6, 2014
I totally agree that Manga artist and writer's should come together.  The critique aspect will have to be well planed out though. Because you have some people who take things the wrong way trust me i know all to well.  Do you have any ideas as to putting together a group for this? I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Reply
:iconpandag:
PandaG Featured By Owner Jun 7, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
^^; well. This may be a good or bad idea. I'm nervous when it comes to giving my opinions. But what if those who are becoming manga artists or are manga artists somehow create a blog or forum to discuss any important critiques. It could be in the form of a blog on a website dedicated to manga artists who question their development of the manga with advice, skills, suggestions. Not saying that 10 pages should be included on the blog or site, but a brief introduction of the manga, characters, what they can improve and how.  Each manga artist or writer can contribute on another's manga style, anatomy, storyboard, background, characters and etc. Its kinda how what we do in my graphic design class. Critiques can offend people if they are not looking at it in a wise way. so I do understand what you mean when people take things the wrong way. But if the writer or artist has an open mind then there could be a positive outlook. Also maybe writers or manga artists could give small hints without copying one another but creation through imagination is the key.  Some manga artists tend not to put too much out due to the fear of plagiarism or being plagiarized.  However, many can come to terms with improving the concept. Overall the only thing I can say is that the manga artist or writer must find a way to recreate the scene of emotional qualities that fit into the story. Leave an impact in other words, like avatar, attack on titan, and etc.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 15, 2014
Never be nervous to give your opinion. I like the idea. Soon i will be posting a new journal and poll. I think we can make this thing happen but we'll just need to work together. That's going to be the most difficult part.  I'm more than willing to work with others. But you have some people who are not and are stuck in their own thing. So that will be part of the battle as well.
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:iconpandag:
PandaG Featured By Owner Jun 16, 2014  Student Traditional Artist
Thanks for making me feel better. :) I hope I can be of some help. Thing is, i have no clue what to contribute besides research and experiences from other artists. I am unsure if I can fit in. I'm a graphic designer and a illustrator. But anyway. I myself may not have a lot to show, but I can only say that based on experience, it is not easy being a single manga artist doing storyboard, writing, coloring editing and etc. I went on hiatus on deviant-art because I needed to improve the skills that I was missing in the basics of the manga. For any manga artist, if they are starting out, especially if they are young and unsure on what path to follow, should observe and research. References, art books, tutorials. I started with the basics. Characters, genre, and a plot story and location are the outer basics. However there is more to that. Without anatomy basics characters cannot be created along with the personality of the characters. Knowing the genre of one's manga helps to familiarize the person or reader to what is being expected. A location allows the writer or artist to use references and imagination to create a concept that opens up a new world for readers. However, out of all of them, the plot is what ties everything together. If there is not a stable plot then the idea falls apart. I've been constantly going over my manga over and over from characters, plot, and etc. I will admit that it has been a total of 5 years of improving and observing my flaws from the past. To be being a manga artist to create a manga takes drive. Some of us take it seriously for a reason. Others do not take it as seriously but have fun and not go mainstream with it. Personally, I want to continue to work on mine and I have a dream to eventually donate to artists or writers that want to be known. Manga artists that refuse or do not want any help whatsoever are afraid of plagiarism. I do not mind working with others. I want to do something. I can only still call myself a rookie for now, only because my work isn't out there but I think its about time that I could find a group to help me improve as well. XD. Can't wait to see the poll. :) Thanks for reading all of my rambling. Overall, I agree with you.
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:iconakasora-redsky:
Akasora-Redsky Featured By Owner Jun 4, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
I agree too even if I am in France and it's a bit...Easier, I think ? We have a manga contest going on until August. I don't know if it can be considered as a "beginning of democratization" but I think so. We're big consumers of mangas and japanese products out there so it can be the reason.
But I agree with you on a lot of points (and facing things actually help getting motivation, thanks) and this need to change, people need to get more quality work and more people should write non-japanese mangas, but everyone outside of us, writers, are like "lol no you won't succeed" "lol no get a real job" so it can be hard to stick with it. I have stopped school for a year now to know what to do and would love to get published and live out of it but because of that I need to find a school for 2015 because of this stupid mentality that don't consider writing and drawing a manga as a real job. It might be just in France though..Correct me if I'm wrong.
I support you and your work and hope you succeed !
Reply
:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2014
Let me say a kind thank you.  A lot of people here in the states just don't get it. You have to know business demographics in order to succeed. I learned this through speaking to real Animation studios. So i knew the European market is huge. Also i have some professional artist friends that are European as well. Wow so your country is hosting a manga contest. Would you happen to have a link? I'd love to see it. Once again i'm so happy that you got the point of this journal. One thing that i want to happen is, for all of us Foreign and none foreign to create manga together in a huge market.    This can be done and done well with the proper planning. Also thanks for the best wishes it means a lot :)
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:iconakasora-redsky:
Akasora-Redsky Featured By Owner Jun 5, 2014  Hobbyist General Artist
Yeah, of course I have a link ! But it's in french so it might be hard to understand. Ask me to translate if you want to know something.

www.tremplinmangaki-oon.com/
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:iconraven269:
Raven269 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2014  Hobbyist Digital Artist
I actually agree with you on this
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 2, 2014
Thanks :)
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:iconmessataniencarder:
MessatanienCarder Featured By Owner May 31, 2014
Thank you, this was very informative.  It gives me a lot to think about  my goals and plans for my future projects.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner Jun 1, 2014
You are welcome :)
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:iconbeogard:
Beogard Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
Awesome post.

I've known manga fans for as long as I can remember, and one thing I've always thought that would help North America adopt graphic novels as part of our culture is to stop referring to the medium by cute Japanese names.  This has nothing to do with the work ethic or quality of the artists, but hearing some dude go off about "it's called manga, not comics!" and "it's anime, it's not cartoons!" has always been a downer, in my mind.

I'm sure the main reason people prefer manga from Japan is the quality.  I know I get pissy about North American remakes of Japanese stories and movies.  Directors don't get the stories, and good artists are hard to come by.  But it can't help that we don't even have a commonly used English term for the scene.

What the art is called isn't even close to the central issue, but words matter, and where I'm from, "otaku" who were open about their love of all things Japanese used to be borderline social outcasts (especially those who'd call themselves "otaku"), and are still not mainstream.  And yet, Simpsons was always a big deal, and so were Saturday morning cartoons.  Cartoons which included AstroBoy and DragonBall, among others (I'm old, lol).

I don't know the behind-the-scene industry details, so it'd be silly for me to comment on that.


While I don't know what your plans are to revive OEL manga, I do know that music movements always involve consolidation of artists.  Best of luck with your art, and hopefully you find hard working artists to work with.  One story can be a catalyst but it'll take a full cast to start a movement.

And it'd be awesome to to be able to buy and support local graphic novels.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
I'm very impressed by your comment reply. I like what you said. The naming of things can hurt efforts. I've never been a big fan of call this that and call that this. Who cares. As you stated when English names come about then they ruin names for everyone. There needs to be a common ground. So work has to be geared toward that effort as well.  As for titles like Otuka or nerds. I'm not found of that either. For me it's just a group of people who happen to like the same genre or subject matter. Why place all of them in a not so popular social group or outcast as you stated. It makes no sense. But you have to realize that they are ok with it then so be it.  Oh and my plan is not to revive OEL manga. I feel that it never should have been called that any way. I don't like the Amerimanga title either. The whole format needs to be changed. That's my goal to do a total ovehaul. But it can't be accomplished alone. It's going to take time and a group of people willing to not settle for less anymore. That's my take on it any way.  
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:iconbeogard:
Beogard Featured By Owner May 29, 2014
Yeah, what I am saying is that non-native terms for things hurt them, in my mind.
Everyone here watches "cartoons," (even if it's just Simpsons and/or Family Guy), yet many are hesitant to give "anime" a chance.
Even though it's just words.

I don't think the actual words we use are as important as having words that are either native English words, or are commonly used by most people, not just a specific subset of fans.

I don't agree that "english names come about then they ruin names for everyone."  I think the bigger issues are that:
1) non-Japanese artists don't have the same work ethic as their Japanese counterparts, which in turn leads to them not being able to produce the same quality work, and
2) no matter what name you give something, that name gets attached to a specific style.  When tastes in styles change, that name will fall out of fashion.


I don't expect you to be reviving OEL manga, but here's an example of what I mean about names being attached to styles.
In music, disco was incredibly popular for a short period of time, and then became incredibly unpopular.
"Disco" fell by the wayside, but "music" lives on.
In much the same way, "OEL manga" has had it's fifteen minutes, but "graphic novels" are still a viable medium for storytelling.


I had mentioned otaku-types as outcasts as a reference for attitudes towards Japanese art where I'm from.  When I was a kid, I had a friend who would import Japanese art, mostly anime and seiyuu CDs, but some manga as well.  There were six of us who would hang out and watch movies together.  This was around the time when Evangelion was released.  Barefoot Gen and Sanctuary are still two of my favourite movies, animated or live-action.  At that time, though, my friend who imported anime would try to get random people to watch it, and they would be offended by things like excessive fanservice. Some series like Mamono Hunter Yohko rightfully deserved this, but many series like Ranma 1/2 or Tenchi Muyo can be lumped into the "fanservice" group, even though their appeal had nothing to do with a few panty flashes.  People who weren't already into anime would watch these, and then write off Japanese art altogether.

Times are changing, but this is why I feel that non-Japanese artists need English names for their work.  They also need to start a movement, put in the time to reach Japanese artist-level quality, and for there to be good series that don't rely on fanservice.  But that's just my two cents.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner May 30, 2014
Well the name makes people think a certain way. That's something that's out of our control. All we can do is try to improve on things so that more people will give it a try.  Well you can not agree with the English names. 

But Amerimanga sucked, OEL manga sucked. And to say a title doesn't hurt things is like me saying a Dog doesn't eat Dog food.  People are drawn to titles period that's just the way it is. Honestly, when i think Amerimanga it makes me think of something cheap. If i were to hear Original English manga than it would also make me think of something low quality. So say i'm a foreigner what would make me stop to read if the whole group name is low quality? 

As for reviving OEL manga there's no point and trying to save that ship it has sank sadly. So what i'm suggestion is a total revamp. Truthfully i had this plan for some time now years to be exact.

I was just trying to build my portfolio.  I have like 100 stories of more that need work from artist. So for me to say i could single handily do things would be an understatement. But i'm not trying to do things by myself i want to involve the masses. Right now there's no one to get behind and far too many self promoted artist running around.  

But nothing that has truly flourished in this field. Something that would make even a Shoenen Jump stop to say hey wait a minute or some other manga publisher.   You are right time is changing. Even Felipe Smith has come back to do a comic book series Ghost rider. So that says a lot. I remember him competing in those Rising stars of manga contest. He won it and things blew up from there. But even he had to write a certain type of manga in Japan in order to sell. 

I'm not saying anything is wrong with a artist wanting to go to Japan. But if we could do things here and do it well then there would be no need for that. Personal manga is a tough sale period. I think unless something changes it will always be that way unfortunately.


It's just a certain way you go about things and well I've tried to tell people i worked with and it went unheeded. So that's when i decided to no longer give out free information. My time, knowledge and professional contacts are key factors for this revamp to take place. 
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:iconzoneaw15:
zoneaw15 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
wow
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
Thanks!:)
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:iconzoneaw15:
zoneaw15 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
ur welcome, that was pretty accurate dude there really is no demand for anime artist here in the USA all you probably do is just draw whats hot and hope it works from my opinion 
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
Well the thing is we have control of that. So why not use that control to make things better. That's all i'm suggesting. 
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:iconzoneaw15:
zoneaw15 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
true
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:iconeternal10:
eternal10 Featured By Owner May 27, 2014  Student General Artist
I appreciate this,there's a lot of knowledge here that I didn't know about in which I must meditate on. However I do have a question....
What do you think the Europeans are doing to make sure they don't fall into the same deficit(or ditch if you will)as the US has as far as coming behind Japan and Korea when it comes to Manga.Basically,what are they doing that we're not?
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014
Well for one they have a lot of readers. They also still have a Tokyopop there publishing manga. Here in the states you have far too many hot heads and people leaving rude comments etc.. The focus is horrible here.  If this person thinks right the other thinks left and so on and so forth. Actually Europe is the next largest consumers of Manga and Anime. Here in the states there would have to be a lot of convincing people why they should buy etc.. Then you will run into mister or misses know it all who really doesn't know it all.lol The problems start and no progress can get made. We hurt ourselves. Well not me i don't. I have no problem staying focused or on track. But others oh may. So we fight ourselves of they fight them self rather.  The thing is this we also need people outside of the states to buy our manga. Even with Masterless Technique i had orders from Canada, China, Europe.  I know how to appeal to whomever. I'm not stuck in a nutshell like most. 
People have to open their mind in order to open doors. It just makes sense.
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:iconeternal10:
eternal10 Featured By Owner May 28, 2014  Student General Artist
Hmmm,Thank You very much for this knowledge and wisdom.Btw I also linked this journal to a recent journal that I posted.I feel a lot more people should read this.
Once again,thank you
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:iconeternal10:
eternal10 Featured By Owner May 27, 2014  Student General Artist
*know*
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:iconsai-shou:
Sai-shou Featured By Owner May 27, 2014  Student
...my god. Thank you for sharing this. I needed a slap back to the harsh reality, and this was it. I'm getting Masterless Technique when I get back from the holidays to top up my paypal. :heart: Keep it up, and once again, thank you for this post. It's exactly what I needed to hear.
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:iconkenshinro7:
KENSHINRO7 Featured By Owner May 27, 2014
You are welcome. And wow i look forward to you getting a copy of Masterless Technique. Thanks for the fave by the way :) Also i viewed your DA page. You have some very meaningful stuff there. I could see your work gaining a lot of views and support soon. Just keep up the good work. :)
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:iconsai-shou:
Sai-shou Featured By Owner May 27, 2014  Student
Thanks once again! I'm going to share these with my fellow artists, they need to know of this. :')
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